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	<title>Comments for Frank Carver's Punch Barrel</title>
	<atom:link href="http://blog.punchbarrel.com/comments/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://blog.punchbarrel.com</link>
	<description>Frank Carver's musings about software and life</description>
	<pubDate>Sat, 22 Nov 2008 05:50:54 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>Comment on Less-bright applications and web sites save power by Harry Pynn</title>
		<link>http://blog.punchbarrel.com/2008/11/19/less-bright-applications-and-web-sites-save-power/#comment-1058</link>
		<dc:creator>Harry Pynn</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 19 Nov 2008 14:12:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.punchbarrel.com/?p=804#comment-1058</guid>
		<description>I'm skeptical about this for a number of reasons. I advocate the same approach to energy conservation as I do to software performance optimisation. Tackle the lowest hanging fruit first. There are things we can do as individuals that are orders of magnitude better. For example, don't drive a car when you could cycle. Turn the heating down a few degrees. Turn your computer off when not using it. The number of web column inches devoted to blackle is disproportionate to the energy saving potential. The blackle servers are clearly consuming energy, the benefits for LCD screens are negligible. Please stop kidding yourself that this sort of ecoactivism is beneficial and let's get on with saving the planet.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m skeptical about this for a number of reasons. I advocate the same approach to energy conservation as I do to software performance optimisation. Tackle the lowest hanging fruit first. There are things we can do as individuals that are orders of magnitude better. For example, don&#8217;t drive a car when you could cycle. Turn the heating down a few degrees. Turn your computer off when not using it. The number of web column inches devoted to blackle is disproportionate to the energy saving potential. The blackle servers are clearly consuming energy, the benefits for LCD screens are negligible. Please stop kidding yourself that this sort of ecoactivism is beneficial and let&#8217;s get on with saving the planet.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Ubuntu Ibex key repeat problems by Frank</title>
		<link>http://blog.punchbarrel.com/2008/11/18/ubuntu-ibex-key-repeat-problems/#comment-1024</link>
		<dc:creator>Frank</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 18 Nov 2008 13:49:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.punchbarrel.com/?p=798#comment-1024</guid>
		<description>Thanks. Doesn't look like a high priority to fix it, though. :(</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks. Doesn&#8217;t look like a high priority to fix it, though. <img src='http://blog.punchbarrel.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_sad.gif' alt=':(' class='wp-smiley' /></p>
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		<title>Comment on Ubuntu Ibex key repeat problems by Andrew Beresford</title>
		<link>http://blog.punchbarrel.com/2008/11/18/ubuntu-ibex-key-repeat-problems/#comment-1023</link>
		<dc:creator>Andrew Beresford</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 18 Nov 2008 11:51:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.punchbarrel.com/?p=798#comment-1023</guid>
		<description>It's probably worth mentioning that there is an Ubuntu bug open about this; 

https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/synergy/+bug/281546</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It&#8217;s probably worth mentioning that there is an Ubuntu bug open about this; </p>
<p><a href="https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/synergy/+bug/281546" rel="nofollow">https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/synergy/+bug/281546</a></p>
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		<title>Comment on Keyboard @ Symbol Synergy Woes by Frank Carver&#8217;s Punch Barrel / Ubuntu Ibex key repeat problems</title>
		<link>http://blog.punchbarrel.com/2008/06/05/keyboard-symbol-synergy-woes/#comment-1022</link>
		<dc:creator>Frank Carver&#8217;s Punch Barrel / Ubuntu Ibex key repeat problems</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 18 Nov 2008 10:57:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.punchbarrel.com/?p=101#comment-1022</guid>
		<description>[...] Similar Posts Keyboard @ Symbol Synergy Woes [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Similar Posts Keyboard @ Symbol Synergy Woes [...]</p>
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		<title>Comment on A Simple HTTP Client - Part 1 (Overview) by eno</title>
		<link>http://blog.punchbarrel.com/2008/01/07/a-simple-http-client-part-1-overview/#comment-846</link>
		<dc:creator>eno</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 06 Nov 2008 13:17:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">711520859#comment-846</guid>
		<description>Hey frank, thank you for your answer.. I will look into that. 

The sourceforge "issue" was that you don't find these files as part of an official source package on sourceforge (I guess because you haven't released it yet.) It is however, possible to check out from the sourceforge SVN repository.

One more question though: I guess you drop the connection after a request is done? So no HTTP/1.1. keep alive in here? Is that right?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hey frank, thank you for your answer.. I will look into that. </p>
<p>The sourceforge &#8220;issue&#8221; was that you don&#8217;t find these files as part of an official source package on sourceforge (I guess because you haven&#8217;t released it yet.) It is however, possible to check out from the sourceforge SVN repository.</p>
<p>One more question though: I guess you drop the connection after a request is done? So no HTTP/1.1. keep alive in here? Is that right?</p>
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		<title>Comment on REST is not CRUD, and here&#8217;s why. by Frank</title>
		<link>http://blog.punchbarrel.com/2008/10/31/rest-is-not-crud-and-heres-why/#comment-835</link>
		<dc:creator>Frank</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 01 Nov 2008 13:01:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.punchbarrel.com/?p=747#comment-835</guid>
		<description>Thanks for the comment, Tom. For me the point about the fetching of single resources vs the fetching of multiple resources is one of different approaches to optimisation.

The usual approach with databases (and thus with common understanding of CRUD) is that all data may vary, and thus all data should be fetched each time. If this assumption holds, then aggregating a group of resources into one fetch makes a lot of sense, as it cuts down on the overhead of establishing and managing multiple connections for multiple requests.

With REST, on the other hand, the assumption is that all "get" requests may be cached. In particular, the REST clilent may already have fetched and cached some or all of the resources already. If this assumption holds, then returning a set of resource URIs and allowing the client to fetch only those which it has not already got makes a lot of sense.

Let's consider my example of images in a web page. 

The approach of returning everything every time in one request would typically result in huge and heavy web pages, each containing all the referenced images, videos, sounds, flash animations and so on. Typically the size of even one image dwarfs the few hundred (or at most few thousand) characters of the page HTML.

On the other hand, the approach of including only the URIs of the images, videos, sounds, flash animations etc. allows the client (in this case a web browser) to choose what it does. It may choose to cache images etc.; it may choose to ignore them. It may choose to fetch them all every time. 

I hope we all agree that the overall web browsing experience is much smoother when a browser has already cached all the images etc, used in a page, and the same can also be true in distributed systems.

As another example, consider a search service. Such a service could return the full data of all matching resources every time, or it could return just the URIs of matching resources and allow the search client to use cached versions where possible.  In common scenarios, the most popular search results will be returned lots of times, and thus can be cached, allowing the responsiveness of the system will improve over time. If all resources are returned every time, then the responsiveness can probably never improve without hardware changes.

Does that make sense?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for the comment, Tom. For me the point about the fetching of single resources vs the fetching of multiple resources is one of different approaches to optimisation.</p>
<p>The usual approach with databases (and thus with common understanding of CRUD) is that all data may vary, and thus all data should be fetched each time. If this assumption holds, then aggregating a group of resources into one fetch makes a lot of sense, as it cuts down on the overhead of establishing and managing multiple connections for multiple requests.</p>
<p>With REST, on the other hand, the assumption is that all &#8220;get&#8221; requests may be cached. In particular, the REST clilent may already have fetched and cached some or all of the resources already. If this assumption holds, then returning a set of resource URIs and allowing the client to fetch only those which it has not already got makes a lot of sense.</p>
<p>Let&#8217;s consider my example of images in a web page. </p>
<p>The approach of returning everything every time in one request would typically result in huge and heavy web pages, each containing all the referenced images, videos, sounds, flash animations and so on. Typically the size of even one image dwarfs the few hundred (or at most few thousand) characters of the page HTML.</p>
<p>On the other hand, the approach of including only the URIs of the images, videos, sounds, flash animations etc. allows the client (in this case a web browser) to choose what it does. It may choose to cache images etc.; it may choose to ignore them. It may choose to fetch them all every time. </p>
<p>I hope we all agree that the overall web browsing experience is much smoother when a browser has already cached all the images etc, used in a page, and the same can also be true in distributed systems.</p>
<p>As another example, consider a search service. Such a service could return the full data of all matching resources every time, or it could return just the URIs of matching resources and allow the search client to use cached versions where possible.  In common scenarios, the most popular search results will be returned lots of times, and thus can be cached, allowing the responsiveness of the system will improve over time. If all resources are returned every time, then the responsiveness can probably never improve without hardware changes.</p>
<p>Does that make sense?</p>
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		<title>Comment on REST is not CRUD, and here&#8217;s why. by Tom</title>
		<link>http://blog.punchbarrel.com/2008/10/31/rest-is-not-crud-and-heres-why/#comment-831</link>
		<dc:creator>Tom</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 31 Oct 2008 18:40:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.punchbarrel.com/?p=747#comment-831</guid>
		<description>Or maybe it can help to make the analogy. Doing composite operations, as you discussed, is one example. Quick REST APIs might require one-off hits for each resource, but could the URI itself describe a composite resource? Really, resources are more often virtual than being simple standalone files or documents. Thinking about, say, the relationship of SQL (from a CRUD view) and REST is helpful, and I think you've contributed to that here. I also agree that differences are worth highlighting.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Or maybe it can help to make the analogy. Doing composite operations, as you discussed, is one example. Quick REST APIs might require one-off hits for each resource, but could the URI itself describe a composite resource? Really, resources are more often virtual than being simple standalone files or documents. Thinking about, say, the relationship of SQL (from a CRUD view) and REST is helpful, and I think you&#8217;ve contributed to that here. I also agree that differences are worth highlighting.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Are static or dynamic languages more maintainable? by Thibaut Barrère</title>
		<link>http://blog.punchbarrel.com/2008/10/15/are-static-or-dynamic-languages-more-maintainable/#comment-822</link>
		<dc:creator>Thibaut Barrère</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 29 Oct 2008 11:54:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.punchbarrel.com/?p=678#comment-822</guid>
		<description>Hi,

I don't have any hard data either, but in my experience dynamic stuff has always been easier to maintain as compared with static stuff (Ola's post actually made me realise this).

I'm just asking myself it the better and more intelligent tooling isn't just a necessity, a consequence of the volume of code!!!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi,</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t have any hard data either, but in my experience dynamic stuff has always been easier to maintain as compared with static stuff (Ola&#8217;s post actually made me realise this).</p>
<p>I&#8217;m just asking myself it the better and more intelligent tooling isn&#8217;t just a necessity, a consequence of the volume of code!!!</p>
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		<title>Comment on A Simple HTTP Client - Part 1 (Overview) by Frank</title>
		<link>http://blog.punchbarrel.com/2008/01/07/a-simple-http-client-part-1-overview/#comment-810</link>
		<dc:creator>Frank</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 25 Oct 2008 13:01:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">711520859#comment-810</guid>
		<description>Thanks for the comment. I hope you find the code useful. Please let me know how you get on, especially if you have any thoughts or suggestions.

I have generally held off from putting licensing information in the code itself - probably because I am just lazy :)

Rest assured that all Stringtree code is easy to use. It is dual licensed: you may choose either LGPL or Apache license (see &lt;a href='http://sourceforge.net/projects/stringtree#item3rd-1' rel="nofollow"&gt;here&lt;/a&gt; for details.) If you don't like either of these licenses for some reason, let me know. I have also issued versions with other licences in the past.

I am worried that you could not download the HTTP Client code from sourceforge. What sort of problems did you face?

As for the dependencies, it seems you have got me on that one. It looks like a dependency has crept in (probably since I wrote that post back in January)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for the comment. I hope you find the code useful. Please let me know how you get on, especially if you have any thoughts or suggestions.</p>
<p>I have generally held off from putting licensing information in the code itself - probably because I am just lazy <img src='http://blog.punchbarrel.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<p>Rest assured that all Stringtree code is easy to use. It is dual licensed: you may choose either LGPL or Apache license (see <a href='http://sourceforge.net/projects/stringtree#item3rd-1' rel="nofollow">here</a> for details.) If you don&#8217;t like either of these licenses for some reason, let me know. I have also issued versions with other licences in the past.</p>
<p>I am worried that you could not download the HTTP Client code from sourceforge. What sort of problems did you face?</p>
<p>As for the dependencies, it seems you have got me on that one. It looks like a dependency has crept in (probably since I wrote that post back in January)</p>
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		<title>Comment on A Simple HTTP Client - Part 1 (Overview) by eno</title>
		<link>http://blog.punchbarrel.com/2008/01/07/a-simple-http-client-part-1-overview/#comment-809</link>
		<dc:creator>eno</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 25 Oct 2008 11:51:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">711520859#comment-809</guid>
		<description>hi, while the org.stringtree.http.* package seems interesting enough I didn't find any licensing information attached to it. And while it is accessible directly from the repository I didnt succeed in downloading it as a part of one of the stringtree projects at sourceforge (which would then help resolving the licensing issues)

Can you quote me some licensing terms? This one looks so much more concise than apache's http client package: 10 kB vs 500 kB speaks loud and clear :) 

BTW: the "...with no dependencies other than the standard Java APIs..." is not 100% true: you need the URLutils class from org.stringtree.util.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>hi, while the org.stringtree.http.* package seems interesting enough I didn&#8217;t find any licensing information attached to it. And while it is accessible directly from the repository I didnt succeed in downloading it as a part of one of the stringtree projects at sourceforge (which would then help resolving the licensing issues)</p>
<p>Can you quote me some licensing terms? This one looks so much more concise than apache&#8217;s http client package: 10 kB vs 500 kB speaks loud and clear <img src='http://blog.punchbarrel.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<p>BTW: the &#8220;&#8230;with no dependencies other than the standard Java APIs&#8230;&#8221; is not 100% true: you need the URLutils class from org.stringtree.util.</p>
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